Let's solve a career query from my friend
Submitted by lucky_pharmacist on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 06:36.
in
Hello again, one of my freinds brother completed XII exam and was very keen to get suggestion from me for what he should opt as career, he was interested in Pharmacy too. Just the day before I had discussion with you regarding the scenario in industry so I went through some details which I have mentioned below. Go through them and let's try to guide him to pick a right course.
Time of completing of course
M.Sc. PhD : BSc3+MSc2+PhD3 = 8 years (minimum)
M.Pharm PhD : B.Pharm 4+M.Pharm. 2+PhD 3-4 = 9-10 years (minimum)
Cost of the course
M. Sc. PhD: 10,000 -20,000 (Approximately)
M.Pharm PhD : 8-10 Lakh
About status in entering into the pharma field, what are the equivalent opportunities
Synthesis and R&D in synthesis:
M. Pharm Pharmaceutical Organic Chemistry/ Pharmaceutical Medicinal Chemistry or PhD
M. Sc. Organic/ Synthetic Chemistry or PhD in Organic/ Synthetic chemistry related subjects.
QA/QC:
M. Pharm. Pharmaceutical Analysis or PhD
M. Sc. Analytical Chemistry or PhD
M. Sc. Microbiology (for microbial testing)
Production / Formulation (F & D):
B. Pharm., M. Pharm. Pharmaceutics, Formulation.
M.Sc. or B. Sc with experience.
Biotechnological production and R & D:
M. Pharm. Biotechnology/ Pharmaceutical Technology or PhD
M. Sc. / M. Tech Biotechnology or PhD
Marketing:
M. B. A. Pharma Management.
B. Sc. or other graduate with M. B. A.
For M. R.B. Sc. or any graduate, Diploma in Pharmacy, in some parts even 12th pass works!!!
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(I know this might be somewhat incomplete information but I have tried from my side you can also add some more if you wish to share with me and others.)
After going through all these details what do you think I should suggest my friend, should he do B. Pharm or should he opt for B. Sc. in some of the mentioned subjects, if he really wants to enter in the Pharma field. I still remain unclear, I have asked him to wait. Lets solve this puzzle for him.
Awaiting your replies.
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Accepting Challenge might not be the problem....
You are definitely true in your words,but I still think that many students who are talented and clear with the concepts in that subject and job also don't get selected for it eventhough they are ready to accept and confront the challenge...What the problem is that people in industry have a preformed ideas now-a-days that B.Pharm students are not mature enough for that job in terms of skills because most of the students have a last-minute study before the exams and thus don't have a clear concept in the subjects...Hardly there would be few students who have proper approach in the subject and are fit for the job...But industry can't take pains just for few those students....Isn't it???
I have some different opinion
I don't feel that industry has created a mindset for specific category of students for employment. They still need us and it’s required that some of us should enter the field and help them to change their views in this regard. Let’s not blame anyone, all are responsible for this situation and all must work for solving the crisis. I think this is the outcome of this long discussion.
That's just the present scenario...
Dear Lakshya, I agree completely with your words. Its not about blaming anyone...That's the present scenario existing which I have seen...It's possible that you might not agree with me because you may not have seen situations which I have seen...Similar is the case with me that I may not get agreed easily by you because I have lacked the observation of those situations which you have seen....Don't you agree with me now??
Whatsoever may be the observation
Whatever may be the observation, but my dear friend I have seen in industry for nearly 5 years now on. I have said that I visited industries in nearby locations and I had discussion with people there, even those who had no pharma background. Let's not discuss this issue in a way which does not yield any meaning. I started the discussion so that we can get some sort of solution there were many sensible and noteworthy comments I have noted and will continue to talk about the issue in both the dimensions, i.e. Industry and Pharma students.
I have already cleared that the story has many dimensions and every one sees what he/she has seen or felt about that situation, right?
That's true....
I agree Lakshya, Iam not contradicting you in any way...I was just trying to present my ideas before you...I know you have seen industry more than me and I can't oppose you in that field...But what I was saying was what I had seen...Even I was stressing on that everyone has a different way of looking....So I think we were stressing on the same story with same idea, but still trying to convince each other....Hey,that's funny; We ended up with similar conclusion, it seems!
Interest must be be the key factor
u can solve the problem just by knowing the interest of that boy ,going by his knowledge,caliber and interest towards the subject rather than the oppurtunities.......
I asked in another perspective
Dear Rameshwar, I think you didn't go through the discussion and comments. The issue was not about his /her interest but an issue about comparision of two streams and why should one opt for the specific field if given another option too.
I hope you understood the point.
career
Dear Lucky and dear Koteswara Rao
This topic is very interesting and do you see how many opinions and facts and stories are emerging? Everyone is talking based on their experience.
Why don't we make a brainstorming session out of this ?
If you people are interested I can suggest a method.
We are ready for it
Dear Madam, I am very happy to have your concern in this regard, I am glad to tell you that even Mr. Vege also supported the topic and now I am finalising the outline for the forum. I will be happy to have you as a active member of that forum, rather one of the initiators of it.
To win the race...
Dear LAKSHYA,
In my opinion ,pharmacy is a field where we get the fruits slow and steadily. Initailly the motivating factors will be less. In the case of payment, the starting will be unattractive but it touches the peak as the experience and effort increase (especially for an MPharm holder). you should have the patience..It depends up on the interest and attitude of the individual....thats why still too many people are going behind the pharmacy courses in India..thats why too many colleges are coming up every year(nearly 40 pharma colleges are there in a small state like Kerala, most of them recently started !). Demand is still high!A day will come when only BPharm/MPharm graduates are only considered for the pharma industrial scientific profiles..
I will prefer BPharm for your friend rather than basic sciences. Tell him to do the MPharm in his area of interest..Ultimate success will be with him..Remember 'slow and steaddy race wins the race.'.
Lets hope the day comes very early
Dear Praseen, I feel that the the increase in number of pharma colleges is not due to demand but some other reasons too. I'll tell you a real story. One of my friends who did his B Pharm had a neighbour who was doing B.Sc. The person doing B.Sc. finished early and went to industry with a payment of 5000/- Rs. The day my friend passed he too went for similar job and was also handed similar payment. But by this time the B.Sc. person had started to get payment of 6-7000/-. What the pharma student should tell his parents? The neighbour who invested very less amount had got the same job but they invested more in his pharmacy.
Can you ask the parents to keep patience who took loan of 2 lakh for him and he is getting 5-6000/- pm salary. Do reply.
career
dear lucky, I am here trying to present the issue from the other side. Probably we must have a industry- Academia interactive conference to sort the problem. But till then consider the issue as I am giving below.
Shall we agitate?
Shall we agitate that non Pharmacy graduates should not be taken into Pharmaceutical Industry? That is not possible or reasonable for the following reasons:
1. Manufacture of medicines is a multidisciplinary field and many functions can be carried out by PGs of other disciplines.
2. PGs of other disciplines work for lesser salaries which is advantageous to the industry owners.
3. Suppose we agitate and the industry accepts to take only pharmacy graduates, can we find enough pharmacy graduates for all the jobs?
4. It was found earlier that some industries came and selected students and the students were not willing to join. Everybody wants only the highly paid plum jobs; no one wants the lesser paid jobs (production jobs).
5. This is how the entrepreneur thinks “Let me employ someone who is less qualified, demands less salary but is more loyal and stays with me for long years. I can give him training so that he can do his job well. Let me employ only one qualified person with a high salary and put him where decision taking or problem solving is involved.”
Agitatiion may not be the way
Dear Madam, I think the points which you mention are true but, is there any specific solution?
The situation you mentioned is very much happening in the industry and now also in institutes too. We also have one more brach for competition, B.Tech.(Chemical Engg. Specialization Pharmaceutical chemisrty or Chemical Engg). they wont work for less salary but they are preferred in technical departments. I accept that our field is multidisciplinary but what if the core element is missing. I know we should walk hand in hand with others but what if they start beating us instead? I really wish to find solution and will try to get answer from all people like you so that we can atleast eliminate the fear from minds of students and their parents who wish to enter the Pharma path.
Dilema!!
Yes, As you told we are in dilema whether or not to suggest Pharmacy course for upcoming students. In news papers the writtens are like "Pharmacy is Top", but in real scenario it's somehow different. Are we not real persons required by Pharma industry, If so then why the variation, Even in University campus interviews, A Pharma company is recruiting single digits of pharmacy students and double digits of non-pharma students. Why all this??????????????????
G.S.N.Koteswara Rao
Dilema still goes on
Dear Mr. Rao, the probelm is multidimentional and I can't suggest a complete solution. The problem lies in educational system, students approach, approach of industry, financial matters, stability and many more..
Lets hope to find asolution to it.
career
Dear Lucky
When a field is in boom everybody tries to get into it. Isn't everybody getting onto the software bandwagon? But the real specialists in the field perform better and get paid better. In the Pharmaceutical Industry (PI) M.pharms get better payment than M.Scs.
You cannot tell the PI not to employ others; It is their privelege to employ whomever they please. And there are times when they ask for Pharmacy personnel and the fresh graduates are not willing to go and work either because of salary or place or small sector company and so on.
Everybody can do management but MBAs are preferred; there are a thousand MBA colleges but IIM MBAs are preferred.
SO my point is that the only way you can command your position is by good performance.
Pharmacy is without doubt a better course than basic Sciences.
But I agree with Sailaza when she says that everyone must do what they love to do.
Vijaya Ratna
I do agree eith you
Dear Madam, I agree with you because I have went through the same stage after my graduation .3 companies came for interview and all were for marketing. I had no options like production and industries were very much less in our area.
I have said already that I don't point towards the industry but it is infact a part of the system and we need to change the system. But it is a fact that MSc s are employed because they work on less payment. So is it that industry wants more work at less cost and exploit workers. I feel it is even the exploitation of MSc people who work so hard yet get less payment. I also have problem regarding their attitude towrds pharma students whom they feel as inferior and try to supress. And I said its my opinion and I can't force it to everyone.
Career is investment ?
I would suggest to choose a career what he really "Likes" . Imagine B-pharm guy who loves to work with his liitle instruments in his lab in a small group....does his specialization in M-pharma (sales and marketing )...because it pays more....Hope you got my point...
Point noted
I got your point but, I think you were not able to get my point of view in the question. I asked this because the pharma field is definitely hot cake but, there are presently ways to enter the field even without having pharma background. I think this is wrong, the industry should prefer and support pharma graduates but its not happening.
We invest such huge amount in education and get something similar a M.Sc is going to get in our competition then what will be your answer? This is actually my question. Should one opt to go the life sciences or basic sciences route and enter the field or go through the so called proper route for entering pharma career.
career
Dear Lucky
Pharmacy students have the best opportunities today.
Money involved changes with the merit of the student and the college involved.
B.pharm students usually join the industry ( usually production at a salary of around Rs. 6000) or colleges as demonstrators.
M.Pharm students join industry at a salary ranging from 12000 to 20000. They join colleges with a starting salary of 17000.
Ph.D students are like hot cakes and are grabbed by managements and they receive salarys which are definitely more than 40000.
Pharmacy field is in a boom now and people with merit and skills are just grabbed.
One Ph.D scholar worked with a doctor who has a research lab and the doctor was impressed by this boy and retained him for work in his research lab at a salary of 1 lakh!
No other field has this much choice of opportunuties .
But yes, you must show merit and acquire SKILLS, then only you can raise above the ordinary.
vijaya Ratna
Pharmacy students face competition from others too
Dear Madam, I am again glad to have your comment, but I think you were not able to get to core of the issue. I know we have definitely better payment, opportunities. As mentioned in my previous blog I had showed the competition to pharma students from other fields and I tried to explain it here.
I asked the query because we invest such huge amount, more years but still we are being considered equivalent to basic sciences or life sciences students. We get similar pay, so should one really should go through our pharma route or they should opt for the other route.
My personal opinion is against going for Science route, it has to be through pharmacy education only.
Cheap Labour!!!
I think the competion between basic sciences and B.Pharm may be due to readily agreeable mass of basic science people to work for low wages. This may be the reason for most industries to employ the basic science people in large numbers instead of B.Pharm graduates. Just think, would you agree to work for just 6000 rupees after investing so many years of study. Now think the other way being a basic science grad who invest much less number of years in studies. Now i feel you might have got the answer why is such a scenario existing.....
Its not only cheap labour but the attitude too
Dear Shubranshu, I visited some of the nearby industries and discussed similar points. The result I got was also something we should take note of, B. Pharm students feel they should get more salary with less efforts, they tend to leave the job for either higher education or better salary offered by other company. I also got one point to discuss that the MSc people are very keen in given job and do as guided by the manager while do not do so, hence the manager likes to have people who go by his/her words and not go by the words of the employed candidate. We will discuss more and I'll keep blogging regarding it.
may be due to aspiring pharmacists!!!
Yea, that reason is true that most of the pharmacists don't go for job after bachelors due to their higher aspiration for approaching for masters....May be this would be the reason that they don't go for job after B.Pharm and that's why industries don't recruit B.Pharm graduates in plenty.....
The problem is with the approach and attitude
Its not that all students prefer masters, some of the freshers want to go for formulation and analysis job rather than chemistry. And also the people in industry feel the knowledge of chemistry with B Pharm students is not at par with what the Organic Chemistry students have. The approach and attitude of students too needs to be changed and they should accept the challenge and join industry.